Interview with Abdel Aziz Adam Al Hilu, commander of SPLA in Nuba mountains, South Kordofan, and former deputy governe

Questions from Julie Flint, June 18th. 2011

1. Details of defections from SAF/PDF etc. to SPLA. How big? How significant?

It is over one thousand from SAF, who join SPLA in many areas like Kadugli, Kauda, Buram, because they discovered that SAF is not genuine and they do not respect agreements. And that is not just to agress SPLA. So that is what happened during this fifteen days.

2. Any SOLID info about the mass grave reported to be in Kadugli?

Hundred of people has been extrajudiary killed and executed. Many people lost their lives in Kadugli. But I can't tell about this mass graves. They just forced people who were displaced to come back and bury the dead. And some of them escaped and came to tell that there are many many bodies inside Kadugli town and that they forced people to bury this bodies.

3. What happened at his meeting with Nafei in Kadugli. (I think Nafei went to his house. Why?)

I didn't meet this man at all. He did not come to my house.

4. Who is running the war? In Nuba, Ahmad Haroun or Ahmad Khamis? In Khartoum, Omar al Bashir or SAF?

All of them. It is Omar Bashir who has ordered and who has declared the war in Khartoum. And who has ordered to disarm SPLA and attack SPLA in Nuba Mountains. And Ahmed Haroun and Ahmed Khamis also who have ordered recently to execute the war on behalf of Khartoum. And they are doing it now.

5. What is the difference between this war and the last? (I imagine greater air power is a factor…)

This is one factor. But most importand factor is that in 1985 we have been all civilians. We did not have any military training, we did not have guns. But this time we have thousand and thousand of arms, armed revolutionaries and this is why the reaction to Khartoum agression was very strong and as you have seen we menage to eliberate over sicksty garnisons and outposts withni ten days of war. So this is the difference. And also in terms of political conscioussnes. –During 1985 the mayority of our people was not awere of the courses of the war. But this time the whole state interacted with SPLA and they have learned the genioun corse of the vision.

This second war majority of people find out that SPLA is fighting for genioun curse fighting for freedom and justice , fighting for eguality, fighting for their benefits.And this is why there are many soldiers who have rebelt This second war majority of people find out that SPLA is fighting for genioun curse fighting for freedom and justice , fighting for eguality, fighting for their benefits.And this is why there are many soldiers who have rebelt against SAF and they join SPLA. Also we rich accros tribal devide and the message, SPLA message rich the Arabs, arab groups in the state. Like the Hawasma, the Myseria, the kavahla and so on. This is why they did not fight against SPLA this time. Only few elements. Majority discovered that SPLA is fighting for their future, for their rights. So this is the difference between this war and the one before. On top of all this many people discovered the nature of NCP ,their wrong policies, their wrong program. So there is big diference between last and this war now.

6. At what point EXACTLY did he decide war was inevitable? (and how did he get all that stuff in place without anyone noticing?!!!!!!)

After president Bashir declared war on us in April 27 2011 I took his words seriously. And when the speakers of NCP requested to disarm SPPLA forces who are present north of 1956 border by June 1. On top also chief of general stuff of sudan armed forces general Esmad brought the letter directly to general Jamis Hos, the chief of the staff of SPLA aksing him to widraw SPLA forces in the two areas south of 1.1.1956 border. On top the comander of the SAF Division 14 in Kadugli Major general Bashir al Bakhi wrote us a letter that after June 1.I am going to disarm any SPLA who is staying in the state. And that is going to abaide by the spirit only of CPA but not the tay and provisions. So it was open declaration of war. So when they bring more tanks, and more heawy guns and more provisions after I was that sure that they are going to abduct and this is why I ordered all the SPLA troops to take defensive positions and wait for atack. Then on the June 6.they have actualy atacked our positions.

7. What support from Juba? (I doubt he will tell you. I understand they are supporting him massively.)

Actualy Juba is an different Country now. Southern Sudan people have been voted for Indpendence and we are part of the North. We are not part of the South. So there is no relations becouse we disangage, we start disangagement with SPLA leadership and we are working now as an independent party and army in the North. So there is no any relationship aspecialy on the military site and there is no support from them.

8. What coordination with the Dinka Ngok? (Doubt he will tell you).

Dinka Ngok have different orientation and different agenda. Yes they are part of Southern Koordofan, but they have special status and they have different course, and they have different agreement. And we have nothing to do with them.

9. Does he have a role in this war for JEM and co?

No, no, we do not know this people. And they are very far. And they are staying there in Darfur. So there is no relationship between us JEM movement. In fact they are now negotiating a peace agreement.

10. What is Khartoum’s Grand Design? The oilfields? One Sudan? Revenge?

Actualy Khartoum design is very clear. They are interested in natural resources. South Kordofan is very rich. It is the only staate in Northern Sudan, that is producing oil. It is also very rich with other minerals like uranium and others. On top is an agricoltural staate. We have also livestock. So Khartoum is interested in natural resources and they do not care about the people. Khartoum is also planing establish totalitarian regime and they do not want tolerate any other one. Just one party sistem. This is way they are targeting SPLA members. They killed many many people just becouse they voted for SPLM. SPLM leaders and secretaries where arested, tortured, and we do not know for mmany where they are now. This is monolitic party.

11. What does he want from the int.comm?

Let we extend the interim period beyond July 9. Let we extend the mandate of UN to help for protection of civilians. And organise reliable negotiations between SPLA and GoS in order to implement the CPA-

12. Can Mbeki do anything? Does he trust Mbeki?

Yes I do trust Mbeki. He si doing his best. We want to give him a chance.

13. Surely talk of chemical weapons/dirty bombs is nonsense? (Tell him I took soil samples from Blue Nile when they cried CHEMICAL and they were negative…)

This are just rumors. I can t beliewe that NCP will go to this extgend.

14. How can we contact him from outside?

I am now not in Kadugli, so I doubt you can get me on e mail. But I am awailable on Mubarak phone.

15. If I made another film, hopefully for the BBC, could we be around him?...

Depend on situation. This is the begining of a war and I do not know the development.



Re-typed from audio dictafon: sorry it takes so long. Can't concentrate on small things … while …


23. junij 2011